A disclaimer. The person writing this has not one iota of musical training and is a totally self taught opera fan.

Rap and Opera: Kind of Way More Alike Than We Think

After listening to the generally bewildered conversation about the gay rap opera I wanted to add my two cents as this may be the only time I actually know a bit about a musical form discussed on the show. So, there are some pretty obvious reasons why Rap Opera might seem like a bit of an oxymoron. Rap or hip hop is principally defined by spoken rather than sung lyrics and in its most traditional form shuns live instrumentation for sampled beats repeated over and over again. I won't attempt to make some kind of comprehensive definition of opera for fear of being massively wrong but singing is at the center of opera works. Nonetheless, there are in some cases powerful parallels between opera and hip hop, indeed in some ways rap is the contemporary popular music form most like opera. Seriously!

Because opera as an art form spans like a bunch of centuries there's this huge variation between opera styles. Those who know more about opera than me are probably more familiar with the exact periodization for baroque, classical, bel canto, the whole Verdi moment, (where does Wagner go?) Verismo, whatever Berg was up to and the rest. As Oliver is constantly banging into our heads, not only are these styles distinct in terms of the kind of melodic line you might hear in the music, but they require specific kinds of vocal technique.

Interestingly enough, hip hop is I would argue, the most diverse form of American popular and one that has the most easily discernible distinctions between styles because each opera style is specifically defined by region (west coast, dirty south, east coast) and these days by city as well. The style of phrasing, the rhythm within the rhymes and even the pace of lyrics create stylistic differences that mirror the difference between coloratura singing and dramatic singing. For example, no other contemporary forms of music require the kind of rapid rhythmical phrasing you hear in the comedic Rossini and Donizetti operas, I'm thinking Dr. Bartolo's aria in Barbiere as one example and I know there are tons others. Outside of rap the closest thing I can think of is like a scat singing by jazz artists.

Moreover because hip hop (at least until very recently) is so deeply steeped in contemporary political and economic structure (who better to comment on such matters than folks who tend to ascend from the bottom of that structure) the stories told within hip hop songs are on the level of an like Nozze di Figaro in terms of prescient commentary on the current moment. I would argue that, In this way, hip hop is more like opera than the lionshare of musical theater which spent a good deal of the 20th century running from contemporary politics rather than commenting on it even though classical singing technique is often used within opera.

Hip Hop is pretty much Grand Opera
Beheadings, murder, sexual assault, knocking women up and then bouncing out on paying child support, beating the crap out of your competition with backup, part of the most recent 50 cent album? Probably, but also central to like every popular opera? Definitely. Sure Johnny Cash broke the rules by talking about shooting men in Reno but no other American musical form shares operas love affair with violence and general mayhem then hip hop. The explanation for the general over the topness of operatic plots is that the grandiosity of the music requires a grandiose plot. Could Puccini really have written the most dramatic moments in Tosca if Scarpia was just trying to pressure her into letting his adorable gang of toughs re-open their dice shooting alley ala Guys and Dolls Really, only opera and hip hop can tap into the most intense, dark and violent moments in our society without sounding ridiculous or being sly and ironic about them. There's a lot of debate about the authenticity of hip hop performers and legitimate criticisms that there's something not awesome about pulling people directly off the streets and transforming them into products where not just music but a super problematic lifestyle is consumed by the public. Nonetheless if you don't want to listen to death metal, hip hop has mastered the operatic art of transforming the truly terrible into a powerful and pleasing to the ear (at least my ear) art form.

OK I have more but I've officially babbled way too long. Thanks for the show guys!

First I want to say that this show was surprisingly longer than normal without an O corner??? Anyway, the link to the Domingo story is wrong. Here is the right one. Doug mentioned the worst song... it was created by Vitaly Komar and Alex Melamid. I first heard it in This American Life. The song meshes elements of songs that are individually disliked by a majority of (American?) listeners... kids singing, high soprano voices, rap, accordians, holiday or religious songs, too long, etc. etc. I love the worst song more than the best song.

The Bash'd opera is an "opera" like a rock opera is an "opera". Meaning, it is most definitely not an opera. I'd have to say that most of the praise for this thing seems to be because of the performances; two performers act out all the characters, most of lines would be single lines from a member of the chorus. Theater people love that. I never saw this, but from the clip, it is just seems like a gimmick to me. Kwame, maybe you can post what you think of the clip?

Finally, I loved Kwame's rant. My only issue would be this quote:

hip hop is I would argue, the most diverse form of American popular and one that has the most easily discernible distinctions between styles because each opera style is specifically defined by region (west coast, dirty south, east coast) and these days by city as well.

Since rap is relatively a young genre, I feel it just cannot be as diverse as older culturally ethnic genres. In country music, for example, you have Appalachian hillbilly (Hank Williams, Sr.), western swing, bluegrass (various styles: gospel, traditional, progressive), rockabilly (ala Johnny Cash), honky-tonk (ala Hank Williams, Jr.), outlaw (ala Willie Nelson), southern rock (Charlie Daniels), etc. etc. And that ignores the subsubgenres, such as the Bakersfield sound within honky-tonk (ala Merle Haggard), or Red Dirt within outlaw (although it takes a bit from here and there). It's all very different. It just sounds all the same to someone who hasn't listened to much of it, just as rap might. I know I would definitely have trouble distinguishing east coast from gansta rap from some old school, but that's just because I haven't listened to enough of it to distinguish.

I'd also argue jazz has more diversity as well, probably more than country: dixieland (from traditional "black" New Orleans to "white" Chicago style), ragtime (from Classic as in Joplin to Harlem as in the Charleston), swing (including big band), bebop (Dizzy Gillespie and Bird), cool (Miles Davis), fusion, smooth (ugh!), latin (Tito Puente), etc. etc. Jazz is not as popular as country or rap, of course. The diversity has little to do with the music I think, and just how old that music is and the longevity of it's popularity since the music has to evolve to stay popular. In other words, it'll take about 50 years or so for rap to be diverse enough for Ken Burns, Jr. to make a 20- hour PBS special on it.

Wow. Not good at all... I totally do not get how rap is at all related to opera. Perhaps you can try explaining it to me me in a coherent fashion?

My apologies for the tone.

A- I really enjoy Cosi. The music is vey nice, and I think if it's done right, it should be very funny.

B- Aida is definitely Verdi's most overrated opera. But when asked "Whats the most overrated opera ever," I can't believe no one said what I immediately blurted out: Boheme. Can it be than an aspiring opera singer really can't stand Boheme? It must be. I've seen it live twice, watched other recordings, and I can't see the extreme fascination everyone has. Makes me wanna hurl.

And I agree with you Michael, my fav Verdi opera is Rigoletto.

Welcome the hell back dudes!

hi guys,

how funny that this hormone injection diet was part of the podcast this time around--i know three people, all here where i am working, who have done it. and lots buttloads of weight! but i always thought it seemed a bit risky...

nice show!

ok, i meant lost, not lots weight :).

Doug Dodson ON FIRE this episode! Great show, guys.

Great episode!
Did you know that R. Villazon has not brushed his teeth for 14 years?? He has a strange phobia of tooth brushes.
No joke.

I have to go with TRAVIATA for Verdi's most overrated opera. And Doug, if you want to see some POPSTAR TO OPERA STAR, I've posted some of the best/worst clips here:

http://telephoria.wordpress.com/2010/02/04/popstar-to-opera-star-meh/

If you need a refresher on Mario Lanza in film (and you don't want to step back too far), he plays a nice part in a montage in the movie "Heavenly Creatures". Kate Winslet and Melanie Lynsky kiss his movie poster and fantasize about him. Maybe there was something to those injections after all...

I wanted to talk about "most overrated opera...." blah, blah, blah.....but then someone mentioned Villazon's not brusing his teeth for 14 years and NOW I can't get that out of my head! Could be the single nastiest thing I've heard in, like, forever---and I teach seven-year-olds!

Opera? Oh, yeah.....

Pop Star to Opera Star, bits of which I've caught on Youtube, is appalling. I can't BELIEVE that Villazon would EVER lend his name to it.

Most overrated Mozart opera? Don Giovanni
Most overrated Verdi: Aida

Doug, I never thought you'd be such a caustic drunk! LOL What was IN that Crystal Lite, my friend? You sounded like Susan Hayward in Valley of the Dolls! I LOVED it!

Welcome back, gents.

I happened to catch the first episode of popstar to operastar and I have to agree that it truly was appalling. But, as bad as most of the performances were, at least the truly worst of the worst was the one who was eliminated (I can't remember his name as I didn't really know any of the supposed "pop stars").

I do like Rolando and it is disheartening that he is allowing himself to be presented as some sort of male equivalent of that creature Jenkins.

Il Mondo della Luna was put on twice in a one year span up here in Toronto. While Haydn in terms of skill pails in comparison to Mozart, it was interesting to hear a classical era conception of an alien language.

As for the most overrated opera: L'Elisir d'Amore
Only one good tune, the rest is formulaic fluff.

Hmm. I think Traviata is on my list of top 5 operas of all time. Every bit of the catchy ("tuneful") score supports the plot, stage business, or character. Some other, popular operas (by Verdi and others) have stretches that seem to just be about the music or a hummable tune (shepherd boy, Tosca, Act III - ugh).

About Cosi: I've seen it live twice, in different productions by different companies. I did have a couple of laughs from it, but they were entirely due to the slapstick choices of the singers, not from the music or libretto themselves. For me, it does rank up there with the most overrated operas.

What a shame this discussion came so late in the podcast, when half of the panelists were drunk.

I wish I had been drunk...

THAT'S your NORMAL voice. Uh-oh. Perhaps you were in a burrito-induced coma? :-)

Selfishly, I would like Oliver's Corner to delve into "Aida" since my local opera company is producing in the fall. But if it truly ranks among the most overrated of Verdi works, maybe the OC can discuss another one. Let me check the upcoming season's brochure ... :-)

I was EXHAUSTED...long day..didn't even finish the drink!

When I visit Chicago, I'll buy you a drink and insist that you finish it.